A Debate Precaution (UPDATED)

UPDATE - Mantronikk, after being caught in a bald-faced lie even he couldn't weasel out of, has deleted the blog entry that mocked me as fleeing from the debate accompanied by a picture of Jabba the Hutt altogether rather than have his lie publicly viewable. He had claimed in the blog that he had deleted my last 5 comments to his blog because, and ONLY because, I refused to answer his scathing decisive question, which is a lie to begin with, but I can prove with screenshots and the publuc record on 4 different blogs that when I gave up on him ever GROWING up and apologising for juvenile comments, I answered his question as a consolation prize for his so badly losing the debate. Rather than have a lie he can't lie his way out of be public, the entire entry is now gone. I win yet again!

Self-Proclaimed Hetero-Separatist blogger mantronikk, the man who tried to convince me to stop defending marriage equality in the comments over on Luois J Marinelli's blog about NOM's summer tour with THIS charming example of disconnection from reality...

mantronikk said...

Shaman of Hedon, I have a question for you concerning homosexual "marriage." How would you feel if you bought an expensive ticket to an IMAX movie and, after you were seated, you saw a person get up and let their friend into the theater via the exit door, and the two sat down next to you and began talking loudly on their cell phones after the movie began?
July 18, 2010 12:32 AM

... has openly challenged me to a public debate on his own blog. This could be fun since he's among the more extreme and openly hateful wingnuts I've ever read. Just a brief scan of his blog reveals the usual bullying lies and blatant distortions of facts I've come to expect from his type, and more openly aggressive and hateful than some. Why he'd challenge me when I've already once publicly dissected his dubious grip on reality and gotten him laughed at and mocked by others doing so is beyond me, but I took him up on his offer.

I WAS going to copy/paste the text of my first comment on his blog here to make sure he doesn't try and pull a fast one by editing, altering or outright deleting my comment and then claiming it's what I posted or that I didn't accept his challenge, which I can clearly envision him doing, but as I'm running on 34 hours without sleep, I admittedly fucked up and copied his blog url for the link above BEFORE I remembered to paste my comment text here, and it's already in holding awaiting his approval on his blog so I can copy it again. My fuck-up, I admit it. So we'll just have to hope he has the integrity to allow my comment through unaltered, as if he does alter it I can't prove such, and if he disallows it to claim I never met his challenge I have only my own word otherwise.

While I'd like to think given my proven history of being terminally honest and having a high level of integrity would speak for itself, I know full well that other bigots who WANT to believe him simply will, and use this to prove I'm too cowardly to meet his challenge.

If however, he has not put through my unedited comment by tomorrow evening, I'll comment AGAIN, and THIS time I'll immediately remember to copy/paste whatever I comment unedited as a comment on THIS VERY BLOG POST. Hopefully, despite his propensity for hateful speech, lying, and relying on known anti-gay liars for his facts, (he links to Peter LaBarbera's site as proof that preachers will be arrested if gays get equality for fuck's sake!), that he will, since HE laid down the challenge, have the honesty and integrity to post my comments unedited.

We shall see.


Manntronik, despite his version of events, has forfeited the debate completely and has left absolutely NO doubt about what a cowardly lying idiot he is. See his latest blog entry wherein he publicly admits to censoring me for a bullshit reason and uses a picture of Jabba the Hutt to signify that *GAPS!!!* I'm fat. Also, trees have bark, water is wet, ice is cold, and Manntronik is a complete idiot. Oh, and just in case he actually grows enough of a brain long enough to realize how badly he fucked his own ass posting that blog entry and removes it so he can claim he never censored me et al, here's a lovely screenshot for you all!

So let's review here. Manntronik, after already proving his grasp of reality is tenuous at best with his ridiculous movie theatre anaology, challenges me to a debate on HIS blog. Why? For the very reason I made THIS blog; because on HIS blog he can censor me in his favor. On THIS blog he can't delete anything I say he can't outwit or twist.

Then he proves he has no intention of having a mature adult debate by posting this blog entry,

... insulting me in a childish homophobic way before we've even gotten started.

As you can see in the comments below, he came here to get even more insulting while trying to act all mature and beleagred on his own blog. I made it crystal clear that the debate was only on hold until he apologised for being juvenile, and that once he had we could happily continue. He tried, and very clearly failed, to twist things into him being the victim of my hateful homo bullying, and said that I was making excuses to run away because I couldn't beat him and was all butthurt because of his little insults.

Well let's review. HE couldn't answer anything I posed to him and acted like a teenager. For the record, his insults themselves barely phase me. I've heard MUCH worse. I wanted an apology because HE was the one who issued the challenge, HE should have the balls to be the mature adult he claims to be.

HE refused repeatedly to apologise, holding the debate hostage and trying to control it. He was bullying me, refusing to apologise unless I answered one of his badly thought out twist questions first. You know, the questions haters come up with designed to sound rational but carefully worded so that they can dismiss your answer as not answering the question honestly even when you do so. By holding the debating hostage and trying to force conditions onto the apology, he proved he's the one doing the bullying and FURTHER proved he had ZERO interest in a real debate, as I suspected from the beginning.

Finally, by censoring my last few comments which said that very thing, he tried to twist it into me being some crazy dyke hater stalking him, the poor victimized homo-hating bully.

See what he did there folks? After deleting comments wherein I clearly said I would stop talking to him IF he refused one last time to grow up and apologise, and by leaving the extended bullying and hate here on my blog while limiting it on his blog to one wordplay insult which he now claims was retaliatory brilliance to deflate my crushing ego, and generally lies through his teeth to play the intellectual victim.

I dare any of you to go read his manifesto and not laugh your ass off at his insistance that there's NO homophobia or hate or bigotry in it.

The debate, if you can even call it that, is done. And Manntronik can blame whoever he likes but the facts prove he's the one who killed it, really before it even began. So he's welcome to twist things however he needs to so he can feel like he won, but all he's accomplished is proving he's just another dishonest bullying lying even to himself spreading hatred and bigotry and lies and distortions trying to justify keeping GLBT folks second class AT BEST.

Shemale of Heroin 1, LittleBoyTronik 0.


  1. FIRST UPDATE; I have just posted the following as a second comment on Mantronikk's hate blog. We'll see if it goes up uncensored. Please note the timestamp on this comment.

    "FYI? Linking to Peter LaBarbera's site to "prove" your anti-gay claims will bite you in the ass. His is a publicly declared hate group, and his site relies purely on discredited research and outright lies and distortions to make it's case against equality. Citing anything he or his people say is like citing Hitler for an accurate opinion on Jewish culture."

  2. Did he...that original comment you quoted in the post...did he seriously just try to compare marriage equality with...sneaking into a theater? The ability to legally wed the one I love is apparently somehow equivalent to a stupid teenage prank I used to use when my friends were too broke to buy movie tickets? Really?

    What is this I don't even...

    Brain error: non sequiter. No logical connection possible. Please reboot.

  3. Yes luv, I'm afraid he did. If you need confirmation check the blog entry I link to where he posted it, unless he's deleted it, which I doubt he'd have the foresight to try.

  4. I should also note; 12 hours now and my comments are, as yet, NOT posted on his blog.

  5. That's his game; wait hours, then invoke incest, polygamy, or pedophillia.

  6. UPDATE 2 - He finally posted my comments, and as best I can tell both are complete and unedited. His reply was simply to ask me to define hatespeech and be specific. Continuing my precautionary policy, I thus paste the rely I just posted.

    "My definition of hate speech is simple.

    Derogatory speech towards a group you dislike that is designed to paint them in a bad light, ranging from unpleasantly unflattering as a whole to outright mean-spiritedly negative. You have clearly engaged in this tactic. You make grandiose broadstroke blanket claims about how "the gays" are out to destroy the American family or similar such statements, painting the entire community as some evil conspiracy to force children to disobey their parents and make hetero couples divorce, a claim designed to make gullible people afraid of us. This form of hatespeech is especially disingenuous when you consider that all reputable unbiasewd facts and studies prove we want nothing to do with how YOUR families live, we simply want fair true equal respect, acknowledgement and protections for ours. The ONLY way a gay marriage is a threat to a hetero marriage is if one of those hetero folks is actually a closeted gay. If both folks in the hetero marriage are fully hetero and committed and love each other, there is absolutely nothing MY marriage can or will do to change that. To claim othewrwise is to paint a dishonest picture intended to provoke fear, and that is why I qualify it as hatespeech.

    I live in Canada where both gay marriage is legal AND gays can serve openly in our military. And absolutely NONE of the big fearmongering red herrings you American hatemongers swear up and down will happen if such things occur dow there have happened here. Hetero divorce rates didn't skyrocket, or in fact change at all. There was no mass exodus of soldiers demanding a discharge to escape the gays. Canada's economy has in fact been significantly boosted by gay marriage. And no preachers or pastors here have ever been thrown in jail for continuing to claim otherwise. Canada is proof that NOM is wrong.


  7. Dear, "She-man Of Hedon." I'm waiting on you at heteroseparatist.com. There, there now. Don't be afraid. :)

  8. If you want a mature debate, apologize for the unneccessary and childish insult, or we're done. I do not humor hatemongering juvenile idiots who claim to want a debate but resort to sexist homophobic insults when they cannot refute an argument. Apologise or we're done, and you lose the debate by default for resorting to insults as a rebuttal thus proving you have nothing.

  9. After the way you've insulted me you have the nerve to twist-off at my little dig? Are you vanquished so easily? This is not the constitution of a TRUE shaman. (I am LITERALLY LOL !!) :) You proclaim yourshelf a SHAMAN!! OMG! Next to that guy who just robbed a bank dressed in that half-ass Darth Vader costume, you are the funniest thing that I've encountered this year! "The Shaman Of Hedon"! Don't you mean, "The She-Male On Heroin"!! OMG!!! I'm laughing hysterically...typing through tears...

  10. I haven't insulted YOU. I've justifiably attacked your words, because most of them ARE in fact mind-numbingly stupid. And sorry but you are very publicly shooting yourself in the ass here. As just posted on your blog...

    "No, you just apologise, PERIOD. The debate is over until you do. I have called your arguments idiotic, but I have yet to insulkt YOU DIRECTLY in such a way as you did. I haven't called you a closet homo, I haven't called you a Christian nutjob, I have limited my insults to your arguments, and given the idiocy of them I've been restrained. I have not insulted YOU. If you want me to answer ANY further questions, apologise for the She-Man line and agree to keep it civil or we are DONE. And no excuses or trying to twist it into me being a coward running to claim victory. If our debate ends, it will ONLY be because you couldn't be a mature adult and apologise and admit you were wrong to go there as a rebuttal tactic. I have publicly stated I will continue the debate IF you apologise. The debate's future is in YOUR hands, not mine. The only excuses here are yours. You get no answers until I get an apology. Somehow though, I get the feeling that you'll never apologise just so you can lie your ass off and claim I ran from the debate or you won it because I couldn't answer or some other such bullshit when it is very public that the debate is simply on hold until you apologise and I am perfectly willing to continue it once you do."

    So no, sorry, but this is not me making an excuse to run, this is me saying YOU just proved you are a worthless troll and all you want is a flame war, NOT a debate,and a flame war you will NOT have. We are done, debate is over unless you publicly apologise.

    YOU sir have NO idea what it means to be a Shaman given the hatreed and lies you spread. NO Shaman of ANY culture would behave as you do. And I actually AM a Shaman, regardless of any dismissive insulting bullshit you say.

    Until you grow up, we're done.

  11. Ah, I couldn't help myself. I jumped in over at his place, on the thread where he first started calling you "She-man". In case he chooses not to publish my comment, I'm going to follow your excellent example and paste it here.

    "Oh, Mantronikk. I don't know how it's done in your circles, but in the civilized world, apologies are given when a person screws up or does something offensive, period. They are not used as bargaining chips, as you're attempting to do here - "I'll apologize IF you answer my question FIRST." Apologies are not contingent upon getting the answer you want out of a person.

    But as I said, that's how it's done among civilized people who are honestly seeking to engage in debate. And you, with your juvenile, gender-performativity-based slur (I mean, really? The best you can do is an insult that boils down to, "This woman-identified person fails to inspire my boner, so I will call into question her femininity and gender identity!"? How sad. If I wanted to stoop to your tactics, I could at least get a homo-related jab in, Man-on-mantronikk.) have proven that you have no interest in honest, reality-based debate, but are just a glorified troll and a bigot whose positions won't hold up in the light of reason."

    Also, I couldn't seem to find a dedicated debate thread over there. For someone so purportedly interested in publicly calling you to account, he's not doing a very good job of it.

  12. Exactly. And only a Westboro type would side with him when this is the best he can do.

  13. I see yours didn't get posted. Shock and awe. Oh well, one more peon tricked into openly proven his worthlessness with his very own words.

  14. I think poor little mantronik has absolutely no conception of what actual debate is. Facts and logic are clearly not his currency. Someone ought to explain the concept of logical fallacies to him; specifically, the strawperson argument and ad hominem attacks. Not that I think he'd listen, especially after I made the mistake of reading his little "manifesto". Ye gods, the contortions he goes through trying to hate in such a way that it can't be called hate. My brain hurts now. >.<

    But hey, this little debacle is what brought me to your blog, so I can't say it's been a total waste, at least for me. ;-)

  15. *curtsies* Well, glad to have you, even if you had to hurdle giant piles of bullshit to get here!


Thanks for commenting, try to NOT be crude or mean-spirited. You can disagree with me without calling me a fat bitch etc.