Gorean Day Afternoon

Some of you among my beloved internet friends know I have an account on the Kink site FetLife. On that site I'm a member of several groups. I live here in Vancouver BC Canada, and saw this in the group, Vancouver Personals.

Now those who know me know my huge distate for the Gorean Philosophy, a terribly Misogynist lifestyle that bastardizes BDSM relationships to support the ideal of a purely male dominated society that believes women are inherently inferior and can be truly happy and truly a woman ONLY when serving a man completely surrendering all control and becoming his unquestioning property.

But I'm a generally polite girl, and try to voice my displeasures as nicely as conceivably possible. To that end you can see my reply is very short, not rude, and clear about my disgust without being derogatory. And the reply from the original poster in the public group is so sweet and fun! Why those Gor folk can't be all bad right?


Just like a Bible-thumper, she put a nice face on in public but in private....

In a Private Message titled "Thanks For The Rude Post Bitch!" she wrote, "just because you are not gorean does not mean you have the right to put those of us that are down I do not put what you are down"

Lovely how she accuses me of things I was careful to barely insinuate, let alone actually say, while making a veiled crack about my being intersexed. So I replied.

"Oh believe me dear that was a hundred times more polite than I could have been, or than Gor deserves. It's a masochisit, mysonynist bastardization of BDSM and is a very dangerous thing when it infects real life. Have you ever actually READ the books? Gor thinks women are nothing more than sexual property whose only purpose in life is to completely submit to man's whim and have NO self identity or individuality. I've dealt with Goreans and had experiences that would horrify you. The one man I ever tried dating was Gorean and he held me prisoner for 3 days torturing me trying to break my spirit so I'd make a good piece of property and not be so ornery, spouting the pillars of Gor the whole time telling me how my servitude was the natural order of things and how no woman is capable of being happy unless she belongs completely to a man. He considered rape training. I HAVE SCARS in places NO woman should. And you want to bitch at me because I shuddered and politely suggested that club should be avoided? I wasn't rude in the slighest young lady, but I very justifiably could have been. "I have EVERY right to condemn Gor as the horrifying evil bastardization of real loving BDSM that it is. And fuck you for your pompous arrogance in presuming I don't."

This healthy dose of brutal honest reality could of course not go unchallenged so I got the expected "Oh but your case is rare and we're so much deeper than your silly bondage!" speech.

Her next reply - "i live and breath Gor. Yes i have read the books. Yes you do have the right to condemn Gor, but you DO NOT have the right to condemn those that are Gorean. We do not condemn those that are not. IF you had read the books, you'd know that there is a lot more to Gor then sex. Men do not think that women are just for sex, thank you very much. It is a much deeper connection them most D/s relationships can ever be. i'm sorry that you had a bad experience, that does not however give you the right to be such a bitch to those of us that live the lifestyle and love it."

So me saying I'd make a mental note to avoid them is being a bitch? Me telling her about the very real brutal living proof I am of what Gor in real life represents is being a bitch? How charming of her! Not to mentioning condemning me is EXACTLY what she was doing. So I replied once more.

"You tell yourself whatever you need to to allow your delusions about the horrible reality of Gor to remain intact, but don't even ATTEMPT to tell me I have no right to condenm your arrogant stupidity in attacking me for a very tame commentary that consisted of ONE emoted line and NO profanity or overt rudeness. I was not in the LEAST a bitch in my public reply. I expressed my disgust in a very civilized and non-derogatory manner. YOU were the one who chose to be belligerant and aggressive and yes, a bitch, to someone who disagreed with you. Do not EVER message me again, and keep your delusions about your hateful misogynist lifestyle that is ONLY a bastardization of REAL loving BDSM to your damned self. If you message me again, I will simply block you. Hypocrisy is NOT something I'm willing to humour or tolerate in my inbox."

For a couple of days she respected that and did not reply again. Or sp I thought. Then someone brought THIS to my attention.

The nutjob who started e-mailing me with vitriolic condecsending attacks over a fluffy emote whined to her Gor group about how I victimized her, by pasting the angriest (yet most brutally truthful) part of my reply to her and claimed I messaged her first to attack her. So as I did here I pasted the entire e-mail exchange to show her for the manipulative fruitloop she is. And the crap the other Goreans in her group used to defend her bullshit, oh GODDESS how it hurts my head. For those who prefer to be spared the joy of slogging through that thread, let me summerize the things said after I posted, NONE of which included "Gee you're right, that WAS pretty dishonest and slezy of her".

- I'm as bad as any nazi, because apparently saying "Gor Is Misogynist" is equal to stuffing Jews into ovens.

- The man who raped and tortured me can't possibly be a TRUE Gorean (ahhh, the old "No True Scotsman" tactic), to hurt me like he did, despite him doing EXACTLY AS THE BOOK INSTRUCTS (whatever means you need to break her spirit, use, that she may know her true place and find joy in it) in his attempt to break me.

- The rape was obviously my own fault for being stupid enough (they assumed) to be alone and naked with a stranger (Who I'd actually known 8 months before I let my gaurd down and took him as a client, as I was a prostitute at the time).

- That any Goreans in my local area should claim to be spying on me and be out to get me just to make me paranoid and cry. Because apparently "fucking with" a RAPE SURVIVOR'S head is loads of laughs.

- That nothing I said mattered because obviously I'm just a bitter hateful unhappy bitch with an agenda and an axe to grind (by defending myself against a deceitful attack) and I'm only attacking them, (I'm condemning the philosophy, I never once attacked ANY of them let alone the one woman who started this all), because I'm just jealous about the deep spiritual connections that only they have that I'll never feel in my empty life unless I embrace Gor and my true role as a woman, (Tell my wife how I don't have any deep spiritual connections, she'll kick your ass while FEELING my pain).

All in all they all came off as condescending cult puppets, like Scientologists or Fundy Christians, using blatant exxagerations and distortions to defend an indefensible position while pretending the facts offered to the contrary simply don't exist.

A reasonable human being adapts their worldview to the facts and evidence. An unreasonable person tries to force the facts and evidence to adapt to their worldview.

And the Goreans attacking me now on Fetlife are unreasonable people.

Run if they ever offer you a glass of Kool-Aid.

And I'm trying very hard to NOT read anything past my last reply to the group, so I have no idea what further insane nastyness has ensued. Summarize it for me if you like, as if I go read it myself I'll only be tempted to post another diatribe dissecting their bullshit, which will resolve nothing. Someone who, from the very beginning, is so entrenched in a belief, will always go out of their way to ignore or deflect any evidence that contradicts it.

I recently for example had a brief e-mail exchange with the host of a Christian wingnut website who was baffled by my claim that no one has ever given me a valid reason not based on religious beliefs why gay marriage should be illegal. I also asked him to tell me how much canned food and blankets could've been bought for homeless shelters with all the money he's spent fighting gay marriage.

He answered, proudly linking me to studies that proved the evils of gay marriage and being gay at all, carefully refusing to even acknowledge not only my question but that I'd even asked it.

I replied pointing out that all his vaunted studies were A) hosted on another notoriously anti-gay Christian website, and that every single one was either a half-assed rewording of Paul Cameron's long since discredited falsified research, or misquotings from studies wherein the actual authors have repeatedly publicly condemned right-wing misquoting of their work.

I also repeatedly the money question.

He replied with basically, oh yeah well the Bible says yadda yadda and God's word overrides any human research!

I replied pointing out that human men wrote the Bible, and even if God DID give them the words, human men are fallible and will always put their own spin on things. I also cited, with links to REAL established studies, not one discredited by anyoneexcept Christian group whose discrediting consists of "Nyah nyah I can't hear you". I explained that Sodom and Gomorah weren't destroyed because of any gay sex, but because their men RAPED people and were also bad hosts in the desert. I explained in detail how the structure of the english language at the time of the first English Bible translation meant the word lie and the word lay were not interchangable, and that the oft-misused Leviticus quote "Thou shalt not LIE with mankind as with womankind" therefore has nothing to do with gay sex, but is in fact the Bible's version of "Bros before hos dude". I pointed out lesbians and transsexuals are not mentioned in the Bible anywhere in any version in ANY context.

I also AGAIN repeated the money question.

The best reply he could come up with to that was the extremely laugh-inducing "Well who are you to say what God meant by .....?"

To which I replied "Ask yourself that very question, and get your damned priorities straight." Then, since he had still refused to even acknowledge the money question, I gave him the answer, as estimated in US Dollars and researched costs for most canned foods and simple blankets and told him for every $5 dollars he spent fighting gay marriage, 3 people could have eaten at a homeless shelter instead of starving to death on a street corner. He never replied again.

The Goreans in that thread remind me of him, and of those like him. Those who think their way is the true, good, right and natural way to live, and that non-believers in THEIR way are just deluding themselves and can never know true happiness. Those who will ignore even the simplest questions that they can't answer honestly without admitting the fallacy in their ideals. Those who blatantly ignore or try to dismiss anything that offers evidence they're wrong, will cite outdated or discredited sources to prove their case, and when that fails will try to turn everything around and make it all about your supposedly suspect motives which automatically negate any valid points you have because after all, YOU have an agenda so they don't need to ever stop and think about what you've said to them so haw haw they're right you're wrong neener neener neeeeeeneeeeer!.

So I will NOT be reading any updates to that wretched thread. It will only upset me and drive me to again try telling a wall that it is a wall and not a door as it so desperately wants to believe.

And you just won't achieve ANYTHING talking to walls. Better to talk to the doors and the windows. At least THEY can be opened without a sledgehammer.


  1. While the Gorean slave system is sensible an Gor, it is not sensible on earth in this day. Gor due to being primitive in technology, a woman would not survive well as an out caste, (save in large bands such as panthers). Thus the fact was that Women on Gor are more or less the property of the Warrior caste. In fact ultimately the Warrior caste had the power to bully all the other castes, unless they were clever enough to keep the warriors dependent on them.

    Women got the short end of the stick, because they were not strong enough to be warriors, and this violent ruddy caste were constantly whipped up into drunken frenzies, and full of hard headed egoism to where they just took anything they wanted, including women. (The rest of the castes by controlling the banking, politics, health care, etc, were able to wield such power over the warriors) Unfortunately save under rare cases the Free woman had no real power over the warriors, since her task was to raise the children. The power she had, was via her husband and his Caste work.

    Now on earth, today, women are equally able to survive alone as men, survival is not directly a result of the community finding one useful enough to keep alive (we have universal rights and protections). So women have options to be equal workers with men in the same types of jobs, even to serve as soldiers.

    The mere fact that sexual role, has women submit in the sex act itself, as her instinct, does not mean her life outside the bed room is best spent under the rapture of that same instinct. Humans are not ONLY sexual beings, and if we lived like Horny animals all the time, we would be no more advanced socially, technologically or spiritually than a pack of wolves.

    I think John Norman, has well pointed out that these instincts still exist in us, and that modern society has very little output for them. But the savage society of Gor while it allows the output of primitive sexual behaviors, it represses all the civilized advancements that are possible where men and women act as equals on the social level.

    What we need is a means to integrate the two aspects together. Such that we can live as civilized beings and treat each other decently, while still allowing the expression of those primitive elements.

  2. You are a complete and utter idiot, not surprising given you lacked the balls to leave your name. No, sorry, but subservience to men is NOT a human female instinct, it HAS TO BE TAUGHT, and patriarchal societies have been teaching girls to be subserviant to men's needs for millenia. Being taught to think you're second class is NOT instinct. If women went solely by instinct we'd survive in the wild a LOT better than men, because in almost every mammal species the FEMALES are the hunters.


Thanks for commenting, try to NOT be crude or mean-spirited. You can disagree with me without calling me a fat bitch etc.